Comments on: One of Permaculture’s Holy Cows: the Death of the Swale

By: JohnH

JohnH — Mon, 30 Jun 2014 06:21:32 +0000

You make a couple comments (and the illustration) that cause me to think you are missing half the function of the swale.
If nearly all the water is infiltrating now, then it’s not going to add much more. Plus, on the downhill side of the swale, when you have such wet soil, a larger mound of loose dirt would suit you well. This would then be a bit drier than in the bottom of the swale helping grow plants that don’t like to be so wet.
Overall, I agree that no one technique is a panacea for everything that ails you. Maybe a couple tweaks to the specific application would help out, though.

By: cavemom

cavemom — Sun, 29 Jun 2014 19:55:21 +0000

Hi Patrick,
I enjoyed your thoughts on swales. I live in an arid climate, where I use modified swales to bring irrigation water to my 2.6 acre farm.

I wonder why you call swales a holy cow of permaculture. I figure the only holy cow in permaculture is to do what is appropriate to the situation.

Where you have saturated soil, and it takes a while for the soil to warm up in the spring, it seems like you would get some benefit from the berm that rises above the swale. It would be drier than your saturated soil, and depending on orientation might warm up sooner in the spring. Also might have a cooler side and a warmer side.

For me, on the cooler side of the berm associated with the swale, I can grow spinach, beets and lettuce. In my climate we are cool until we are very hot. When very hot gets here, the sunlight is very intense. Lack of gradual warming prevents us from cool season crops altogether, and prevents us from getting a good start on warm season plants.

For me, swales and berms create microhabitats, extending both cool and warm in different locations.

If your article gets people to consider the comparative merits of swale versus pond or drainage ditch, then it’s accomplishing something.

Thanks

By: soul_gelatin

soul_gelatin — Thu, 15 May 2014 13:25:12 +0000

Hi Patrick,

I think Geoff Lawton in particular has a lot to answer for in regards presenting swales as an almost universal panacea. I did a PDC with him and I think they were talked about more than anything else. I’ve since heard of several instances where ones he’s implemented have failed because of inaccurate implementation or sodic soils. Even when they do work, I don’t think they’re all that appropriate here in Australia much of the time, since getting good groundcover and deep ripping seems enough to make the soil absorb all moisture if it wasn’t already. Although it is possible to add a pipe which gives you drainage options (you can literally pull the plug on them in wet winters). They have a place, especially when water is running in off a hard surface somewhere, but I think we hear too much about them.

By: Tanjawanderlust

Tanjawanderlust — Sat, 10 May 2014 05:59:02 +0000

Thanks Patrick. Im glad Im not the only one with this view about swales. I never really understood why middle and northern eurpeans want to put swales.. just because its cool and because its what the “big permaculturists ” do.. The problem I think is not in the swales per se, but in the glorification and idolification of people / other permaculturists who were successful. If one really understands permaculture, then it means there are no idols and we are all teachers to one another. There should not be any social structure like in the existing world of “economy” out there where only the person higher in rank has anything to say…

By: chrispauling

chrispauling — Sun, 27 Apr 2014 16:48:29 +0000

In reply to atdotslashdot. Patrick, your article on swales is very interesting as is your questioning of them. As a relatively recent student to Permaculture, I desire to know about everything that constitutes the whole that defines what Permaculture is even if some of the Permaculture solutions, such as swales, do not apply to the particular area where I live in Switzerland. I am glad to know about swales and why they are particularly relevant in Australia but maybe not so much in the UK. I agree that if the particular Permaculture solution doesn't apply to ones case, it seems pointless to apply it just because one is doing Permaculture. I would like to think that Permaculture, because it involves a network of living/working relationships, can adapt and evolve in organic ways to meet ones needs, just as Mollison and Holmgren developed and adapted older ideas from other environments to their needs in their environment. Thank you.

By: atdotslashdot

atdotslashdot — Thu, 24 Apr 2014 08:45:24 +0000

Nice article patrick, I think it’s highlighting the difference between problems and solutions. The problem is water mangement. Swales control the speed at which water flows from high ground to low ground so will often be in the solution. Similarly, mulch might be considered part of slowing water evaporation. Both these solutions can introduce their own problems (water saturartion/slugs). Finding the right balance of what works best in any given location is all about the location and the locations function. I’m betting some mulches are not as attractive to slugs (http://www.strulch.co.uk/ claims this) … and then there’s the argument that an abundence of slugs is actually a lack of ducks/frogs/geese.

Obvserve, catch and store energy, obtain a yield, you know the rest but “always have swales” isn’t one of the underlying principles 🙂